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I don't think San Junipero was meant to be optimistic

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Jul 8, 2017
Wisecrack posted:
The Philosophy of Black Mirror – Wisecrack Edition
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I don't think San Junipero was meant to be optimistic. I don't think it was a coincidence that final images of them happily living life inside the machine was intercut with images of warehouse filled with servers.
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Jul 8, 2017
EXACTLY
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Jul 9, 2017
Ya I think he missed the part about the people that were going crazy in the simulation because they couldn't feel anything anymore.
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Jul 9, 2017
Existing inside a server vs outside in what (for all we know) might be another server is a pretty trivial difference.
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Jul 9, 2017
agreed.
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Jul 10, 2017
eh i kinda feel like it's a horseshit cop-out to think we're just "in a server room" like sure *_maybe_* but undoubtedly it's far more unique and inexplicable compared to the one in san-junipero @Reform Project
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Jul 10, 2017
Considering the music, cinematography and character interactions vs your interpretation of the final shots of the episode, it's obvious the ending was supposed to be optimistic
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Jul 10, 2017
SuperJYLS said:
Considering the music, cinematography and character interactions vs your interpretation of the final shots of the episode, it's obvious the ending was supposed to be optimistic
Yeah, it was ironic. It was playing on our expectations with cinematography and music to give us a feel that it was optimistic. Don't forget the people that were in the simulation for too long that lost their minds. That wasn't in the episode for no reason.
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Jul 10, 2017
Def a key point to be made there
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Jul 10, 2017
Joel smades said:
Yeah, it was ironic. It was playing on our expectations with cinematography and music to give us a feel that it was optimistic. Don't forget the people that were in the simulation for too long that lost their minds. That wasn't in the episode for no reason.
I need to rewatch it. Cause I don't remember there being an issue of anyone losing their minds? I vaguely remember them mentioning that the world is addictive for the seniors(cause it's a lot better than being old and dying) but no mention of anyone going insane from it.
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Jul 10, 2017
Joel smades said:
Yeah, it was ironic. It was playing on our expectations with cinematography and music to give us a feel that it was optimistic. Don't forget the people that were in the simulation for too long that lost their minds. That wasn't in the episode for no reason.
what's wrong with insanity in a consciously simulated world?
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Jul 10, 2017
This was the most depressing episode for me D:
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Jul 10, 2017
Deathbunny600 said:
Ya I think he missed the part about the people that were going crazy in the simulation because they couldn't feel anything anymore.
That wasn't in the episode San Junipero
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Jul 11, 2017
KingKraken said:
I need to rewatch it. Cause I don't remember there being an issue of anyone losing their minds? I vaguely remember them mentioning that the world is addictive for the seniors(cause it's a lot better than being old and dying) but no mention of anyone going insane from it.
They talk about it close to the end when Kelly and Yorkie have their fight (it's when she reveals her backstory about her husband and daughter and why she won't stay in VR with her). She says that everyone starts to lose their minds (maybe start to become less immersed in the world and aware that it's all fake?), and ends up going to the Quagmire "to at least feel SOMETHING". I think the main diff between the main characters life in San Junipero and those who lose their minds is that they've accepted that it's all fake and are committing themselves to something. They're also doing things you could never do in that era, such as getting married as a gay couple, rather than just drinking, dancing, and f**king around and then eventually losing interest and having no reason to exist anymore, but are forced to forever.
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Jul 11, 2017
San Junipero had the scariest ending of them all, the simulation is not heaven, it´s in fact something far more similar to hell
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Jul 11, 2017
Simulation is real, heaven is not . So, having a simulation is still better than nothing.
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Jul 11, 2017
TheGoldenDunsparce said:
They talk about it close to the end when Kelly and Yorkie have their fight (it's when she reveals her backstory about her husband and daughter and why she won't stay in VR with her). She says that everyone starts to lose their minds (maybe start to become less immersed in the world and aware that it's all fake?), and ends up going to the Quagmire "to at least feel SOMETHING". I think the main diff between the main characters life in San Junipero and those who lose their minds is that they've accepted that it's all fake and are committing themselves to something. They're also doing things you could never do in that era, such as getting married as a gay couple, rather than just drinking, dancing, and f**king around and then eventually losing interest and having no reason to exist anymore, but are forced to forever.
I like where you're coming from with that, but i personally think of the philosophical question if you were given the opportunity to live in a hedonistic program that fulfilled any desire you had, would you use it? And I think this is where they really made fun of the idea, (imo) of a simulation can only fulfill us for so long before we lose sight of what it means to be fulfilled and we lose purpose, and the only way to find...like, a new way to be pleased is to get into more twisted things and fulfill darker fantasies...I also believe (now because of your comment lol) that they slowly go insane at the realization it's all fake.
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Jul 11, 2017
LightNessITA said:
Simulation is real, heaven is not . So, having a simulation is still better than nothing.
I think that's exactly a sort of dichotomy they had in the episode as well, when the characters were discussing either dying in our reality(in the character's case so she could die the same way her husband and child died) or uploading some aspect of herself into an online server, the argument was something like, not having any idea what would happen if you died in this reality and that ultimately the idea of the unknown wasn't as appealing as being absorbed into an advanced virtual reality, to live forever. (which is where the sort of underlying sinister-ness lies)
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Jul 11, 2017
Gage The Navigator said:
I think that's exactly a sort of dichotomy they had in the episode as well, when the characters were discussing either dying in our reality(in the character's case so she could die the same way her husband and child died) or uploading some aspect of herself into an online server, the argument was something like, not having any idea what would happen if you died in this reality and that ultimately the idea of the unknown wasn't as appealing as being absorbed into an advanced virtual reality, to live forever. (which is where the sort of underlying sinister-ness lies)
Some people also talked about why they think the simulation stops at the 80s. Apparently, everyone was a young adult around that time and that's the earliest age of nostalgia for them. I noticed that when they went to the 2000s, Yorkie said, "This isn't 'you'!" as in, this isn't "your" kind of era. It almost makes it possible to predict around what year the episode takes place in reality. Maybe the 2040s since they were 20 some in the 80s (At least I think that was the 80s...) and are prob 80-90 now?
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Jul 11, 2017
TheGoldenDunsparce said:
Some people also talked about why they think the simulation stops at the 80s. Apparently, everyone was a young adult around that time and that's the earliest age of nostalgia for them. I noticed that when they went to the 2000s, Yorkie said, "This isn't 'you'!" as in, this isn't "your" kind of era. It almost makes it possible to predict around what year the episode takes place in reality. Maybe the 2040s since they were 20 some in the 80s (At least I think that was the 80s...) and are prob 80-90 now?
I think you are totally spot on with that dude
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Nah, it was optimistic, it was two lights dancing with each other.
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Jul 12, 2017
Honestly the worst episode of the entire series.

The story was complete shit and it shoved your face in it.

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Jul 12, 2017
I found the end disturbing for sure. The question posed: Do you take the "sure shot" of a man made after life with a fling of... what? a few hours, in total? (and some one who has already gotten kinda stalker-y and emotionally manipulative with the whole virtual suicide by car thing. Though maybe in a way that elicits more pity than fear?) or do you risk nothingness and bet on reunion with your child and the love of your life in kingdom come. Of course if you are the atheist or the devout in faith and are unable to empathize with the agnostic or doubting Thomas than the question posed is no dilemma and the ending wouldn't be very disturbing for you.
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Jul 13, 2017
I think the thing that made it somewhat disturbing to me which is funny that nobody really touched on in this comment is the fact that they had all of these people's lives in this machine/server which could and will ultimately shut off one day. Submitting yourself to that type of existence where I'm sure they have to think about that at some point they will all truly die in this false afterlife and be faced with whatever unknown awaits them so why prolong it. But then I realized we can ask ourselves the same question and that's what personally made me find it disturbing.
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Jul 14, 2017
Joel smades said:
Yeah, it was ironic. It was playing on our expectations with cinematography and music to give us a feel that it was optimistic. Don't forget the people that were in the simulation for too long that lost their minds. That wasn't in the episode for no reason.
yea but if you're about to die irl anyway, what does it matter to lose your mind in virtual reality?
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